Author Topic: More JY related stuff  (Read 6575 times)

MLX

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« on: January 10, 2011, 05:14:44 PM »
Little update about JY/Hummer:

PCBs:
After talking with J.H. about what those PCB codes were for:
We think the date (Thanks Taizou !) in the PCB code (JY-001: YY840709) would stand for manufacture date (the last 2 digits are random).
The other date that was always 2 years more than the game would be the warranty limit. So JY was manufacturing game quickly (considering Aladdin board is from from March 1995). Now the game that make no sense is King Rabbit by NT.

JY was present before 1993 !
So J.H. opened many carts he had, he ended up sawing bunch with JY written on chips and most of them having similar pcb code. I conclusion all these were released by JY: Mario & Sonik 2, Mario 6, Mario 8, Street Fighter III Turbo 56 People (They could have released all other SF3 variation).
In conclusion they probably appeared sometimes in early 1992 or 1991.

SC:
These are all known SC carts to exist (JY transition name):
SC-112: rerelease of the JY multicart under SC id.
SC-120 (A): 45in1
SC-126: HIK Block 14 in 1
SC127: Wario Land II (original release ?)
SC-128: 25in1
SC-129: 15in1
SC-131: multi
SC01: 8in1
SC02: multi
SC03: multi
SC-001: multi (not related to JY-001)

There's probably more.

Why did JY changed and became generic ?
Story: JY isn't a manufacturer but probably a trading company. This would explain why Super Donkey Kong do not have a JY code but still has a similar PCB code (same unknown manufacturer). and why a multicart from 97 with MMC3 Aladdin on it was released also with a similar pcb but without JY code (duh). The menu, strangely use Somari font but I was told it is hidden in Aladdin so it was probably taken from the CHR.
So the unknown manufacturer stopped activities and JY decided to move to China (no more supporting Hummer Team). Later JY cartridges are known to exist only in  South Korea. but as it is expensive to manufacture stuff in S.N. they probably chose China then they would send carts. Selling cheap carts with usually the same games. (Mainly: KOF97 to 99, Shin Chan 2, Sonic The Hedgehog and simple MMC games). In 2003 they printed 130 in 1 which would have been their last cartridge (this one released in Taiwan). (China proof: JY-617 10 in 1: XB-A011215B - JY-617 - 104x4 - U1 - S0 - S1 - S2 - MADE IN CHINA). In 2008 the same manufacturer would have reused the same games as JY (the company would have kept the files) to make some multi using SX0Y (X = letter between A and D, Y = number between 1 and 4). These being very cheap and using the same menu engine as the other recent JY carts.

Dating exactly Garou Densetsu and AVBGF:
On Somari's chip there's 9401 which would suggest January 1994. Next is AvBGF but it seems that one has no date on board. And box says 1995. But the box was only seen on japanese auction site (written on it: MADE IN JAPAN) (never on any taiwanese website). So was the game released then in early/middle 1994 and Garou would have followed ? Then in June they were already working in JY (see under).
Or
Hummer Team probably wanted to join JY. JY asked them to make 2 games (MK2, DBZ2). Probably to evaluate if they were interesting enough people to employ. MK3Turbo (JY-011) was produced during June 1994. and DBZ2 was made during August of the same year. But they still needed to complete with Ge De and make 2 games. They made AVBGF and Garou and then they would have left completly Ge De.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 05:38:47 PM by MLX »

Awesome Panda

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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 05:48:35 PM »
If Somari was dated January 1994, then I think it'd be doubtful that another 1994 release would come before it or at the same time. In that case, I would assume Kart Fighter, AV Bishoujo Senshi Girl fighting and their other games from that year came after it. (I know you said the latter had a 1995 date on the box, but it says 1994 on the title screen)

MLX

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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2011, 04:44:55 AM »
Kart Fighter would be made 1993 then. Because it was likely released before Somari.

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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 09:52:22 AM »
MLX
Jan 11 2011, 04:44:55 AM
Kart Fighter would be made 1993 then. Because it was likely released before Somari.[/quote]Why's that? :huh:

MLX

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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 12:37:58 PM »
1st: Label: Street Fighter IV and Kart Fighter are the only 2 Ge De games which have a white border. So they would be from the same time. Somari label being "normal". But by the fact Street Fighter IV do not have a Huang-1 inscription on the mapper, it would have been made before Kart Fighter. Also Kart Fighter select sound uses an early version of the same sound effect present in Somari.

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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 01:33:16 PM »
MLX
Jan 11 2011, 12:37:58 PM
Also Kart Fighter select sound uses an early version of the same sound effect present in Somari.[/quote]I guess that makes sense in a way, at least. Seems odd that they'd use a sound effect from Sonic the Hedgehog in a game based off Super Mario Kart, and then not using it their Sonic port at all. (I think it's in the sound test and nowhere else) I'm guessing they originally intended to put the Chaos Emeralds in as collectable items somewhere, but didn't for whatever reason. There's nothing from the Super Mario games in Somari other than Mario himself, and the sprites they used for him weren't in any of Someri's other games as far as I know.

Come to think of it, what ever happened to Sonimari and the so-called "Mario" tiles found in the ROM? Given that Somari is probably easier to find than most pirates, I doubt it was ever released under those names.

taizou

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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 02:40:24 PM »
Sonimari and "Mario" were probably used in development but abandoned .. the latter probably because of taiwanese trademark laws (the reason so many mario pirates/hacks don't mention him by name or call him something else - japanese companies could register trademarks but not copyrights in Taiwan at the time. JY didn't seem to care too much, at least not by the time SMW came out, but evidently Ge De did. hence Somari & Kart Fighter with "Mari")

and talking of Kart Fighter (sort of).. I noticed something odd looking at the graphics in a few early Someri/Hummer fighters:

most of their later fighting games have the HUD stuff at the start of a CHR bank in roughly the same layout as MK3 Special in the bottom right, with a few variations depending on whats needed for that game. but MK2 has both that *and* a copy of the graphics from Street/Super Fighter 3 with a few modifications, and its the lower SF3-derived set of graphics that are actually used in-game - the score and timer numbers are still in SF3's font. Kart Fighter doesnt take any of the actual graphics from SF3 but theyre still in the same layout at the same location in the CHR bank.
(SF2 uses a completely different layout to all of them if you were wondering)

MLX

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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 12:46:06 PM »
Remember SF3 CHR is probably based on Master Fighter VI. The font could be in MF6 CHR too.

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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2011, 12:50:55 PM »
MLX
Jan 12 2011, 12:46:06 PM
Remember SF3 CHR is probably based on Master Fighter VI. The font could be in MF6 CHR too.[/quote]Given that Chun Li's stage in SFIII is Balrog's stage in MFVI, I'd assume that would be right.

taizou

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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 01:01:26 PM »
Ah, yeah. looking at some videos the font actually *is* in MFVI too. that makes sense.

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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 07:57:49 PM »
Okay, so a lot of people seem to think that SFIII stole its graphics from Master Fighter VI', but I think I have a pretty strong case that it was the other way around.

Master Fighter VI' is clearly built using the Kart Fighter/SFII NES engine, which means one type of punch and kick (not counting the "up close" punches and kicks). However, SFIII uses it's own engine, and has light, medium and heavy punches/kicks for each charachter, as well as up close punches and kicks, which means at least twice as many frames of animation. I highly doubt they ripped the graphics from MFVI' and were just like "hey, we can add EVEN MORE frames of animation and add in light, medium and heavy punches!". The game that has all of those frames in it was clearly the one that was developed first.

If you notice the way Guile walks in MFVI', you can see it just looks a bit cheesey. He has a bit too much spring in his step. But in SFIII, Guile, and every other charachter, are VERY well animated, and all in proportion with one another. In addition, Chun Li is in propotion with her stage - Balrog looks like a GIANT on that stage in MFVI'.

My final point is that MFVI' Has ripped resources from everywhere - SFII, SFIII, Cony's crappy versions, and the music is of course from SFII. SFIII, However, doesn't seem to 'steal' anything besides text locations in the CHR, and of course the title screen logo.

Whoever developed SFIII, it can't have been the same people who made Kart Fighter, SFII, SF4, Master Figher VI' and all of the other games using the KF engine..... or else they would have used the KF engine for SFIII too :p. Not to mention the HORRID music in SFIII. Having the decent tracks from SFII laying around, they would have just thrown them in there (Thats not exactly proof of anything, but what are the chances, seriously?) and of course, they could have been distributed by the same people. Just not programmed.

If someone can prove otherwise, that would be pretty awesome, but I'm guessing since the sprites look the best in SFIII, and they have so many more frames of animation, AND everything's in proportion... Whatever team made this game also made 95% of the graphics that went with it, based off my observations.

Here's a video I made about pirated fighting games a while back. Might not have anything new for you guys, but meh, Ill share anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLcjgiu8OQ

KingPepe

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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 08:12:55 PM »
Eh, the only thing they stole from SFII was Zangief's sprites but that was only Mari SFIII Turbo if I remember. Master Fighter VI' uses Zangief's sprites from SFII as well. However, you do bring up a good point about the animations. Obviously, these weren't made by the same developers BUT seeing how it's from both Cony AND Yoko/Someri, I wonder if there's some connection with the publisher. (Ge De Industry Co.)

Out of curiosity but in that video, are those games in time order?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 08:17:03 PM by KingPepe »

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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 08:30:42 PM »
At first I was trying to do them in order, but I lost track halfway through and it started to get out of sequence. Hell, I even forgot to include Street Fighter 4  >_<  I know those CONY games are older than SF Alpha Zero 2 '97 though.

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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 08:53:30 PM »
I know the Hummer/Someri fighting games go in this order iirc:
Street Fighter II/Master Fighter II
Master Fighter VI'
Street Fighter IV
Kart Fighter
AVBGF
Mortal Kombat II Turbo (that and AVBGF could be switched around)
Mortal Kombat II Special
Power Rangers 2 (Not sure about this one)
DBZ2 (Not sure about this one)
Samurai Shodown II
Yuu Yuu Hakusho (this and SS2 can be switched around)
Tekken II (not too sure)
Street Fighter Zero 2 97
King of Fighters 96
Mortal Kombat 4

taizou

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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2011, 01:27:15 AM »
Faceplant
Jan 13 2011, 07:57:49 PM
Okay, so a lot of people seem to think that SFIII stole its graphics from Master Fighter VI', but I think I have a pretty strong case that it was the other way around.

Master Fighter VI' is clearly built using the Kart Fighter/SFII NES engine, which means one type of punch and kick (not counting the "up close" punches and kicks). However, SFIII uses it's own engine, and has light, medium and heavy punches/kicks for each charachter, as well as up close punches and kicks, which means at least twice as many frames of animation. I highly doubt they ripped the graphics from MFVI' and were just like "hey, we can add EVEN MORE frames of animation and add in light, medium and heavy punches!". The game that has all of those frames in it was clearly the one that was developed first.

If you notice the way Guile walks in MFVI', you can see it just looks a bit cheesey. He has a bit too much spring in his step. But in SFIII, Guile, and every other charachter, are VERY well animated, and all in proportion with one another. In addition, Chun Li is in propotion with her stage - Balrog looks like a GIANT on that stage in MFVI'.

My final point is that MFVI' Has ripped resources from everywhere - SFII, SFIII, Cony's crappy versions, and the music is of course from SFII. SFIII, However, doesn't seem to 'steal' anything besides text locations in the CHR, and of course the title screen logo.

Whoever developed SFIII, it can't have been the same people who made Kart Fighter, SFII, SF4, Master Figher VI' and all of the other games using the KF engine..... or else they would have used the KF engine for SFIII too :p. Not to mention the HORRID music in SFIII. Having the decent tracks from SFII laying around, they would have just thrown them in there (Thats not exactly proof of anything, but what are the chances, seriously?) and of course, they could have been distributed by the same people. Just not programmed.

If someone can prove otherwise, that would be pretty awesome, but I'm guessing since the sprites look the best in SFIII, and they have so many more frames of animation, AND everything's in proportion... Whatever team made this game also made 95% of the graphics that went with it, based off my observations.

Here's a video I made about pirated fighting games a while back. Might not have anything new for you guys, but meh, Ill share anyway: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLcjgiu8OQ[/quote]I think you're right - MFVI steals stuff from all over the place, but SFIII seems to have been pretty much developed in isolation from the rest of the pirate world. its possible the SF3 developers didnt even steal the title logo - IMO Super Fighter III is the original, the title screen in that version is completely different. Street Fighter III just looks like a cheap hack in comparison, probably done by someone else - theres that weird block on the III and the shadow on the font doesnt look right at all.

and that whole thing with the SF3 HUD graphics showing up in MK2 makes sense if you look at it that way - Someri Team/Hummer/(whatever they were called back then.. lets just say the SF2 devs) stole them from SF3 for MFVI, and reused them for MK2. the one thing that still strikes me as weird though is that theres some Cony stuff in MFVI. I was always under the impression that "Cony" was the replacement team that Yoko hired when the SF2 devs left them for whatever reason.. but this must mean there was some overlap. although i suspect a lot of questions will be answered when/if MFVI is dumped.