- codeman38
- Oct 6 2010, 07:18:52 PM
Also, the second track of Yu-Gi-Oh should be ridiculously familiar to any Final Fantasy fan. ♪ Chocobo choco-choco-chocobo... ♪[/quote]So that's two games Yu-Gi-Oh! ripped the soundtrack from. :P If I remember correctly, track 1 from the Saint Saiya game is the theme from the anime, although I might be wrong. Tai Kong Huan Xiang has numerous sound effects ripped from Konami games, I think they're taken from Gradius and Snake's Revenge.
Also, one thing strange I noticed was that track 1 in Chao Ji Ji Ren Da Zhan A (which is also used on a multicart for a handheld Famiclone I forget the name of) loops a split-second early.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: codeman38 on October 07, 2010, 11:36:58 PM
- Cheetahmen
- Oct 7 2010, 03:33:36 PM
So that's two games Yu-Gi-Oh! ripped the soundtrack from. :P If I remember correctly, track 1 from the Saint Saiya game is the theme from the anime, although I might be wrong.
[/quote]Yep, it's "Pegasus Fantasy", the title theme from the anime. For once, they actually got one right! (And then proceeded to fail by using the Zelda theme in the same game, heh.) And Nanjing's Saint Seiya also has the music from Majin Eiyuuden Wataru.
- Cheetahmen
- Cheetahmen
Tai Kong Huan Xiang also has the OneStation tune, though this one doesn't loop, and it has added PCM percussion. None of the other tracks in the NSF use PCM. I wonder if that song is stolen from some Konami game?
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: SpaceNinja on October 08, 2010, 04:38:54 AM- Thanks for the addition! Checked myself and all are correct.
So, the happy tune is from Majin Eiyuuden Wataru Gaiden. LOL.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on October 08, 2010, 12:51:50 PM
- codeman38
- Oct 7 2010, 11:36:58 PM
- Cheetahmen
Tai Kong Huan Xiang also has the OneStation tune, though this one doesn't loop, and it has added PCM percussion. None of the other tracks in the NSF use PCM. I wonder if that song is stolen from some Konami game?[/quote]Damnit, probably should've remembered that seeing as that particular Famiclone had Sonic 3D Blast 5 on it. I doubt that song was taken from any Konami game (I certainly don't remember hearing it in any of them) seeing as a lot of pirates steal the sound engine but not the music. Baffles me why they wouldn't use PCM for any of their other songs or even any of their other games. Also, did they even use those sound effects at any point? I can't even remember anymore. :unsure:
Edit: I just realised something, Track 7 from Yu-Gi-Oh! sounds a lot like some cheesy 80's ballad I probably heard way too much as a kid. I definitely recognise the melody but I can't remember what it's from. Somehow, I think this is gonna be bugging me for a while. <_<- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: codeman38 on October 09, 2010, 02:57:38 PM- The second track of Wu Lin Wai Zhuan is incredibly similar to the first in-game tune in a Game Boy pirate by Hitek called "Heroic Sword" (英雄剑 Ying Xiong Jian). I'm guessing it probably originated from some other source, but I don't know what that would be.
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on October 09, 2010, 03:48:40 PM
- codeman38
- Oct 9 2010, 02:57:38 PM
The second track of Wu Lin Wai Zhuan is incredibly similar to the first in-game tune in a Game Boy pirate by Hitek called "Heroic Sword" (英雄剑 Ying Xiong Jian). I'm guessing it probably originated from some other source, but I don't know what that would be.[/quote]No idea what the song actually is but I wouldn't be surprised if it's a copy of another song or even from Heroic Sword itself, seeing as SNT already ripped off V.Fame. BTW, is there any reason why that game uses the sound engine from their earlier games? (as in, before NJ0031) I know a couple of their other later games do the same thing, but I don't see why they'd randomly change it up.
Also, I just noticed that the noise channel doesn't loop properly. Great going, sound programmers. :P- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: codeman38 on February 12, 2011, 02:23:30 AM- Just discovered another one: the first tune in "Lian Shan Ying Xiong" is a really awful cover of the main theme from Flappy!
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: SpaceNinja on February 14, 2011, 12:46:51 PM- ...holy shit, that's just beyond retardedness! D:
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on March 29, 2011, 02:31:12 PM- Listening through a few more NSFs, (SpaceNinja pointed the former out to me a few days ago) track 0 in Sui Tang Ying Xiong is based off stages 7-9 in Castlevania, track 4 in Hu Lu Jin Gang is a remix of the town theme from Willow and tracks 3, 4 and 5 in Qi Guo Da Zhan are all based off songs from Nintendo's Ice Hockey. (Incidentally, that game happens to have the Castlevania song in it as well) Just when I thought the Theme Hospital music was random enough.
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on April 15, 2011, 11:29:53 AM
- Cheetahmen
- Mar 29 2011, 02:31:12 PM
track 4 in Hu Lu Jin Gang is a remix of the town theme from Willow[/quote]That one's actually Shy Guy Beach from Mario Kart: Super Circuit. And yeah, I do feel like correcting myself. :P- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on July 24, 2011, 09:42:04 AM- Apologies for reviving an old topic, but I just noticed that the theme from Sui Tang Ying Xiong is a really bad rendition of the level 1 theme from Gun.Smoke.
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: SpaceNinja on August 07, 2011, 02:33:09 AM- And in fact it is. We really should make this into one txt file or something :)
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on August 07, 2011, 04:27:32 AM- I would, but I'm a lazy arsehole. :X
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: SpaceNinja on August 07, 2011, 04:28:36 AM- Like me. XD
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: adrian09_01 on April 15, 2015, 01:39:46 PM- Okay, I'm new, I'm digging this topic, but:
1. The San Guo Zhi - Cao Cao Zhuan's fourth track (I'm using the Nestopia NSF player) - Super Drunk theme from Bubble Bobble.
2. The Kou Dai Bao Shi - Yin (Pokemon Silver) tracks (WTF, they are using the same song twice in NSF?) (also, the half of the tracks use these Concerts, Kapaokes, Kareokas, Musics stock songs):
1/10 - Oh Suzanna
2/10 - It's Chinese, hell, it's just 5th track in the Subor 3.0 music program
3/10 - Hell, I know it's Chinese but I can't find it in any music program from Famiclones, maybe original?
4/10 - 1th Subor 3.0 track
5/10 - Red River Valley (Typing School rendition here)
6/10 - A rendition of some familiar song made for this game
7/10 - A rendition of some song made for this game
8/10 - A rendition of some song made for this game
9/10 - Possibly original?
10/10 - ANOTHER Red River Valley (Without the noise channel and the second Square has been added, but the main melody is the same as 5)
BTW, the Saint Seiya rendition of Zelda sounds like it can be put in the original TLoZ game without an quality impact.
BTW2, has SNT got a some form of MIDI to NSF converter? The Candyfloss song from Yu-Gi-Oh after conversion to MIDI by NSF2MIDI with the original TH song's instruments sounds exactly like the Theme Hospital one.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: codeman38 on April 18, 2015, 11:04:17 PM
- adrian09_01
- Apr 15 2015, 01:39:46 PM
BTW2, has SNT got a some form of MIDI to NSF converter? The Candyfloss song from Yu-Gi-Oh after conversion to MIDI by NSF2MIDI with the original TH song's instruments sounds exactly like the Theme Hospital one.[/quote]Uh, wow. Turns out that you're basically correct about that. (Edited to add: Though see the added note below the line-- this definitely explains part of the story, but not the entirety of it, as there's still one major mystery remaining...)
I happened to stumble across this while looking up some unrelated stuff regarding VRTech's Famiclone chipsets:
http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/Sound%20Generator%20users%20manual_ENG_.pdf (http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/Sound%20Generator%20users%20manual_ENG_.pdf)
The program archives referenced in the above document can be found at:
http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/midi2vt.rar (http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/midi2vt.rar)
http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/FMDemo.rar (http://www.vrt.com.tw/old_site/admin/upload/download/FMDemo.rar)
The best part, though, is the MIDI file which was included with that development kit, which I *am* totally attaching to this thread for posterity. That's right: both Nanjing and the developers of the OneBus all-in-one cartridge literally just threw the demo song from the dev kit into their games. :lol:
So yeah, without a doubt, that clearly indicates where the Konami-esque sound driver from SNT's early games came from. But now that's only got me more curious about where the completely different-sounding one from their later games originated.
Hm, that still leaves some questions unanswered, though-- Yu-Gi-Oh was one of the later games, and those have a distinctly different sound from the earlier ones, with heavy vibrato and chunky noise-channel percussion. Maybe there was a later version of the MIDI converter? Or one provided by a different chip manufacturer?
It's not just the music-- the sound effects which are included in some of the NSF rips are also noticeably different. The ones in Tai Kong Huan Xiang match those in the above-linked development kit exactly (i.e., obviously reverse-engineered from some Konami game), and indeed, that's one of the "older" games. The ones in the Yu-Gi-Oh NSF, on the other hand, seem to be from somewhere else entirely. So that definitely suggests a different dev kit was at play.
Attachments:
- midi02.mid (1.32 KB) (http://b3.ifrm.com/30023/163/0/p1167473/midi02.mid)
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: taizou on April 21, 2015, 07:56:10 PM- oh wow o: That also explains why the demo song appears in a JungleTac multi for the OneStation..
Nanjing's later sound engine sounds a lot like the one used in various DDR clones and keyboard famiclones from around 2000 or so - there's also another connection in that most Nanjing games contain the same 8x8 font found in most keyboard clones (mostly from Family Basic, with an entirely non-matching set of lowercase letters tacked on).
..and then there are the (post-Nanjing, I assume) Pokemon games released by Hengge and Jncota, which seem to use the VRT/Konami sound engine again (but they also still have the keyboard-clone font).- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: RVVD4029 on April 22, 2015, 06:59:42 PM- Also i know it is unrelated. But through waixing consoles and qi sheng long hacks of nice code games. You can also hear the same music on those games as well.
- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: adrian09_01 on April 26, 2015, 10:10:31 AM- So, can we say that to make the Chocobo song in Yu-Gi-Oh they plopped in the midi from vgmusic.com and into the game?
Also, help me convert my own Karaoke-MIDI songs to this. I already stripped them to 5 channels because I converted them for Megaman 2. Maybe I can hack your favorite SNT game with your favorite song? Just tell me the offsets of the songs.
Ah, it's from the earlier games. So, is there a deconverter for it? I want to hear the original midi's.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: Awesome Panda on May 03, 2015, 06:25:25 AM
- adrian09_01
- Apr 26 2015, 10:10:31 AM
Ah, it's from the earlier games. So, is there a deconverter for it? I want to hear the original midi's.[/quote]I'm pretty sure there's an NSF to MIDI converter, but from what I recall it won't restore the song to its original version.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: kazblox on February 15, 2017, 02:33:57 AM
- taizou
- Apr 21 2015, 07:56:10 PM
Nanjing's later sound engine sounds a lot like the one used in various DDR clones and keyboard famiclones from around 2000 or so[/quote]Funny thing you should say... Nanjing's own sound engine IS the sound engine used in those DDR/keyboard famiclones.
I did a code comparison in Mesen myself, and found that most of the code between Lei Dian Huang Bi Ka Qiu Chuan Shuo and Hot Dance 2000 are the same. I initially thought that this driver came from a licensed game, but it doesn't look to be, after trying to do a code/data lookup in the GoodNES set and finding no matches with any official Famicom/NES release. Looks to be more of a custom driver.
The only game Nanjing has ever made that uses the TOSE sound engine is, you guessed it, Kou Dai Bao Shi-Yin. Which provides a funny connection, speaking that the musician who worked for the Nanjing games probably landed their first jobs at... Subor. Yep.
Specifically, the team who was contracted by Subor to make Subor V5.0. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eNdTPkcjeA) This multicart appears to predate when lots of keyboard famiclone companies tried to copy Windows, but most importantly, the development team for it probably were a precursor to Shenzen Nanjing themselves.
Coincidentally, this multicart of sorts looks like it uses the same engine as I was talking about earlier, due to how it shares some sound effects seen in the Yu-Gi-Oh NSF. If only I had a ROM dump to verify!!!
More so, a bunch music from there, even the default music in the "Music Appreciation" menu appears to have made it's way onto educational famiclone multicarts. I can already spot the latter in the russian Education Computer 26-in-1 menu. :)
Luckily, the multicart itself neatly has a staff roll, which divingkatae from TCRF translated almost every part of (except acknowledgements):
http://pastebin.com/Eawvfv5W (http://pastebin.com/Eawvfv5W)
Which gives us a possible leeway to Nanjing's musician: Mao Shaolin, Gong Hongbin, or Su Zhaoqiang. Do we know any of these people?Spoiler: click to toggleSpoiler: click to toggle- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: codeman38 on February 28, 2017, 11:09:47 PM- One thing that is somewhat curious is that, although the Nanjing/DDR sound driver seems to be an original implementation, the games that use it still share a 368-byte chunk in common with a whole bunch of games developed by Tose (and, thus, with Kou Dai Bao Shi). Looks very instrument-data-like.
Here's the hex string, for any curious people who want to run bgrep on their NSF collections and/or look at where it might get called:Spoiler: click to toggle- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: kazblox on March 07, 2017, 02:11:40 AM- More curiosities:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGBQh1JtYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGBQh1JtYY)
As you can see, it's another one of those DDR famiclones using the same Nanjing/DDR sound engine. Looks to be the same musicians as well. But especially, if you tune in at 30:20, the footage of theHit Marmotwhack a mole game, you can hear... Subor V5 title music?!?!
And if you look in the staff roll for SB-Win98 at 3:46 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuvWbpSb53U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuvWbpSb53U) ...
- SB-Win98
[/quote]
Su Zhaoqiang is the only one left in the Music role, compared to Subor V5's staff role which had Mao Shaolin and Gong Hongbin working alongside. Which means that the latter two, or one of the other, probably left Subor to compose for the unknown company that did DDR multicarts, considering how they were the only ones at the time who had access to this engine.
That same company appears to have survived at least up until 2006, evidenced by those crap VT03-based Strawberry Shortcake and Disney DDR plug and play thingamajigs. At this point, I'm taking guesses that Su Zhaoqiang did the music for Nanjing titles by the time Subor stopped making Famiclone computers. It makes an obvious point since Nanjing appeared to have started manufacturing of their games around 2003 or so, and Subor appears to have halted production of their computer Famiclones around 2001 and 2002.
But, my hypothetical prediction remains uncertain. Croaky Karaoke, Console TV Challenge, and the unique Gamezone titles seem to use the same sound engine, but it remains even more unknown about who composed for them. Also, Croaky Karaoke uses a different composition of Take On Me compared to Dance Master 3, so there could be other musicians that had access to the sound engine as well.- Title: Shenzhen Nanjiing Technology game music
Post by: kazblox on May 05, 2017, 04:12:55 PM- So, remember when I said that the sound driver was custom? Well it is, sort of....
Turns out that in the said Subor carts and the Shenzhen Nanjing games using the same sound engine, lies code from Double Dragon III. That explains the extremely familiar sound effects I'm used to. Looking at the code in the NSF rips, a big majority it is... Technos stuff. I think a separate set of unique routines do something with the music, looking at the code, but that's really it.
So really, one of the programmers at Subor just stole code from a Technos game, like any other bootlegger, but tacked additional crap on it a la Hummer Team.