- KingPepe
- Jan 15 2011, 09:27:55 AM
Well they aren't the same exact characters (with the exception of Marry I think) but they all do share the same commands.[/quote]Well if that's the case, then wouldn't Koopa be a glitchy mess if he isn't practically the same as Niny?- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: KingPepe on January 15, 2011, 10:22:42 AM- ...no not at all. The pointers I think get transferred over and the characters share the same ones or something (COULD BE WRONG HERE).
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: Awesome Panda on January 15, 2011, 11:14:57 AM
- KingPepe
- Jan 15 2011, 10:22:42 AM
...no not at all. The pointers I think get transferred over and the characters share the same ones or something (COULD BE WRONG HERE).[/quote]Well, I'm no expert at programming but I think if the pointers were changed then he would end up becoming a glitchy mess at one point or another.- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: KingPepe on January 15, 2011, 05:20:58 PM- Actually, here's something I noticed that's strange. I did a AVBGF save with Kart Fighter, won the match, got sent to the title screen. I went to the character select and there was no cursor at all. I decided to hit "A" figuring that I might get a glitchy character. Screen glitches up and then the battle appears. I did get a Luigi in light green overalls and black gloves as my opponent and I played as Luigi. However, here's something bizzare. After knocking out the other Luigi, instead of the match ending, he gets back up again at full health. I beat him again and the round ended. Here's the reason why I'm explaning this:
MORTAL KOMBAT II HAD SOMETHING SIMILAR.
In the "Endurance Matches" where you fight two people, after beating one, the other character spawns in the same spot where the other once was. It's pretty much the same thing I described in Kart Fighter. Now I doubt MKII came before Kart Fighter but it's possible that it was being worked on at the time and when it came to making Kart Fighter, they used an earlier version of MKII's engine. (If you notice, there's some similar things such as Scorpion and Luigi only having a projectile attack and the whole action-based AI which is different in MKII). I wonder if Somari/Sonimari and Mortal Kombat were copyrighted near each other or something. I have a video with me that I was too lazy to edit so you'll notice the save-stating and using the backwards tool in Nestopia but look at 00:56 when it happens.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bz6o09fexu56i8z (http://www.mediafire.com/?bz6o09fexu56i8z)- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: MLX on January 15, 2011, 06:04:56 PM- Remember Mortal Kombat II pcb was produced in June 1994. It's very likely developpement started when they made the engine for Kart Fighter and they thought they could use it too for MK2. AVBGF is based on the same revision of SFII engine as Kart Fighter which means why it do works with savestates between the 2 games.
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: Doomkid on January 15, 2011, 08:17:41 PM- Okay, so I've picked 10 different fighting games and loaded every possible combination of states between them. The games are:
AV Girl Fighting
Dragon Ball z -Super Butoden 2
Garou Densetsu Special
Kart Fighter
Master Fighter II (SFII nes)
Mortal Kombat II
Mortal Kombat 4
Mortal Kombat II Special
Street Fighter Alpha Zero 97
Street Fighter IV
Most of them just froze, rarely with some glitchy movement or scattered bits of music. But what I noticed is that AV Girl, Garou, Kart, and MK2 Special are the 4 most similar-to-one-another out of the batch - Thay all had at least semi-interesting results with attempted loads - DK JR with Sub Zero's pallete looks pretty funny. Again, here's a video for clarification:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ1LU3XAeY0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ1LU3XAeY0)
What I find really odd is that MK2 Special works a bit with them, but MKII regular does not. Perhaps MKII Comes before the engine that those 4 use that came from the SFII engine, and then it was developed into this one (the KF/special version) and then with DBZ it was another update, and so on? From a pirates point of view, it would make more sense to instantly release an MK Pirate after your SF pirate, rather than making some whack Mario-SF mix. But who knows, pirates are retarded.- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: taizou on January 15, 2011, 09:58:30 PM
- Faceplant
- Jan 15 2011, 08:17:41 PM
What I find really odd is that MK2 Special works a bit with them, but MKII regular does not. Perhaps MKII Comes before the engine that those 4 use that came from the SFII engine, and then it was developed into this one (the KF/special version) and then with DBZ it was another update, and so on? From a pirates point of view, it would make more sense to instantly release an MK Pirate after your SF pirate, rather than making some whack Mario-SF mix. But who knows, pirates are retarded.[/quote]yeah it makes sense that way - MK2 still has the leftover SF3 numbers etc from MFVI but theyre gone from KF. it probably went something likewith SF4 as kind of an offshoot but some elements being reintroduced for AV, likewise with stuff from MK2 being reintroduced for MK2S but the engine still being basically the revised one from AV.
- Code:
SF2 -> MFVI -> MK2 -> Kart -> AV Girl -> MK2 Special -> Garou etc etc etc
| | ^ ^
v |----------------+-----------|
SF4 --------------------- |- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: Doomkid on January 15, 2011, 10:03:39 PM- So SFIII Was in between SFII and Master Fighter 6/ Mortal Kombat / Fart Kiter / whatever else... Hmm, thats interesting.
If someone hasn't already made one, we badly need a timeline with all (Cony, Hummer, etc) pirated fighting NES games included. That'd be a tough job for me though, because I'm still not so sure about the dates for all these games :P- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: KingPepe on January 15, 2011, 10:05:00 PM- Actually, SFIV should be connected with Kart Fighter as well. In Street Fighter IV, Bunny has this stomp attack that's done by doing Down + B while only jumping vertically (probably a leftover from Master Fighter VI). Mario has something similar in Kart Fighter (which is buggy by then since it raises the position of where Mario stands). I don't think anyone in MK2 has this stomp.
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: taizou on January 15, 2011, 10:08:07 PM
- Faceplant
- Jan 15 2011, 10:03:39 PM
So SFIII Was in between SFII and Master Fighter 6/ Mortal Kombat / Fart Kiter / whatever else... Hmm, thats interesting.
If someone hasn't already made one, we badly need a timeline with all (Cony, Hummer, etc) pirated fighting NES games included. That'd be a tough job for me though, because I'm still not so sure about the dates for all these games :P[/quote]the original Super Fighter 3 might even have been made before SF2, and it was only hacked into "Street Fighter 3" later. thats the thing about that game, its bloody mysterious. no one knows when it was made, or who made it. except that it was before MFVI.- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: KingPepe on January 15, 2011, 11:21:07 PM- I doubt it was made before Street Fighter II (Yoko). Super Fighter III is based off of the Championship Edition of SFII and Yoko's SFII is based off the original.
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: taizou on January 16, 2011, 12:45:13 AM- Ah thats true. so it must have been released sometime after April 1992.. though theres still the possibility that Yoko's SF2 was released later in 92, and they just didnt bother to add any of the Championship Edition stuff.
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: MLX on January 16, 2011, 11:14:47 AM
- Faceplant
- Jan 15 2011, 08:17:41 PM
What I find really odd is that MK2 Special works a bit with them, but MKII regular does not. Perhaps MKII Comes before the engine that those 4 use that came from the SFII engine, and then it was developed into this one (the KF/special version) and then with DBZ it was another update, and so on? From a pirates point of view, it would make more sense to instantly release an MK Pirate after your SF pirate, rather than making some whack Mario-SF mix. But who knows, pirates are retarded.[/quote]
Hell no for both. MK and SF was pretty much similar. Selling both at the same time would make one sells less good than the other. Making some pause with a different game that use popular characters in some kind of different game make a clear transition.
Also if Mortal Kombat 2 was made before Kart Fighter then KF would have been released later than SF4. Sf4 label has white border like kart Fighter and it seems Ge De was getting tired of these white border and started to cut them quickly (you'll find lot of Kart Fighter with a very little white border (= small label). I believe just by the fact the label design is similar, SF4 and KF would have been released around the same time. Which would date Mk2 even older then. I guess MK2 was planned and they were starting to programm it. They used kart Fighter to test some stuff because the engine was pretty much done but they found out that it was better to remake the engine for MK2 which would explain why it do not load savestates from AVBGF/KF.
If MK2 would have been earlier than KF it would have been released by Ge De. Also they registered MK2 in 1994/03/XX. It could be both MK2 by Cony or Hummer's. Considering MK2 by Hummer was released by JY with a standard mapper (210 for Turbo, MMC3 or MMC3 like for Midway). The variant that CaH4e3 recently dumped with the "good" title screen use MMC3 while the other one use M091 (early M090). So it was hacked to support JY standart and it could explain why all 4 title screen on all version (except original MK2 called RevB) have the logo that do not have the animation. So the MK2 they registered probably was the one made by Hummer.
EDIT: I meant KF would have been released a lot later than SF4 on the second line.- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: Doomkid on January 16, 2011, 09:33:04 PM- I suppose from a business point of view, you would want the NES SF to be a bit old by the time you release NES MK, because the market is ready for some new material. Very logical, in fact I'm surprised the pirates were smart enough to realize this. :P When it comes to making money they actually seem to be really smart, I mean hell, as a kid I probably would have gone for their flashy logo's over the non-pirated, less intersting looking games. They're just retarded game programmers.
Also, I never noticed the white border around the cartridge art. That's a really good time reference.
- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: MLX on January 17, 2011, 04:17:56 PM
- Quote:
Oh god stop saying that. They are awesome, great programmers ang game planners. They have experienced people doing graphics. They are not retarded. The more you say they are retarded the angryer I'll be.- Title: Kart FighterAV girl Fighting discovery..
Post by: Doomkid on January 17, 2011, 11:19:24 PM
- MLX
- Jan 17 2011, 04:17:56 PM
- Quote:
Oh god stop saying that. They are awesome, great programmers ang game planners. They have experienced people doing graphics. They are not retarded. The more you say they are retarded the angryer I'll be.[/quote]If they really were that great, there wouldn't be so many obvious flaws and easy exploits in their fighting games. Capcom were great developers. I agree that these guys are good and clearly experienced, and in fact their games have by FAR the best graphics of the NES. But still, the gameplay flaws are horrible in some cases - SMW Nes is only fun with the code YUSUPLAZ because Mario doesn't slow down to a halt when he jumps.
Kart Fighter, AV Girl fighting or Mortal Kombat Special II are the best of their fighting games, because there are so few exploits in the gameplay. They all have special moves and they just play really well, but other than that.. SF Alpha Zero 97 is far far too easy.... I can own any opponent by spamming the hell out of them, and it's literally impossible for them to get out of it. That's not exactly awesome programming.. Its a lazy game thrown together to make money, and yes the game LOOKS really awesome, but no, it plays like shit. They could have done better and didn't.
Anyway, don't be mad :thumb: I'm just here to research pirated NES games and stuff. I commend Hummer for their good games (but hate their crappy ones), and wonder why they didn't just try that little bit harder and produce some truly amazing NES stuff.