Pirate Discussion > Mega Drive/Genesis

A theory of fighting games

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codeman38:
Just realized another connection: Chinese Fighter shares some tunes with its namesake RPG, Conquering The World III (Tenchi o Kurau 3), a pirate original published by SKOB. Which was also soundtracked by Hanmin Liao. Seriously, that guy seems to have worked for half the Taiwanese unlicensed devs out there.

Edit: And it's definitely Final Bout's music that's reused in Pokemon, not vice versa-- the tune is pretty much a direct copy of a tune from a Dragonball game for SNES.

Also, Mulan shares some tunes with Barver Battle Saga and others with Shui Hu Feng Yun Zhuan. Perhaps the two Liaos really are related?

Edit #2: When I have some spare time, I really need to make some sort of chart of music shared between various pirate games. Would be much easier if there were VGM rips of all of them, though...

Azathoth:
Played some more of these over the weekend.

KoF '99 does have the "hold B bug" where you can't move if you keep punch pressed in. I was under the impression this was only present in Top Fighter (since it's not in '98) so apparently Top Fighter is the using the same exact engine as '98/'99, which might be a tweaked engine of the previous fighters. Anything from '98 on does not use the A button for anything (block or otherwise) and blocking is done by simply pressing back.

Sprite comparisons between the three show that all use the same exact sprites and animations ripped from the same series of games. The only difference I see offhand is that Top Fighter pulled sprites from KoF '94 for Kyo, Jordan, and Ali while '99 got it's fucked up Iori sprite from only God knows where. I can't believe they even included it, it looks so bad.

OT but KoF 2000 on SNES pulls all it's backgrounds and music from existing SNES games, including Final Fight 2 and Fatal Fury.

Samurai Spirits II has a title screen dated '97, as does Soul Blade/Edge, but being that one of the characters from Soul Blade was used in SSII it makes sense that Soul Blade was made prior to SSII, then Samurai Spirits VS Soul Edge came last.

I was always under the impression that the engine used in Soul Blade was just a modified version of the one used in either Tekken 3 Special or VFvT2 (and SSII further modifying it). Both have an almost useless air game and both feature a very strange exaggerated walking movement that makes gameplay a chore.

Azathoth:
Please excuse the long post, for everyone who tl;dr I think that VR Fighter VS Taken 2 was the first unlicensed fighter developed, and every fighter after that beginning with Tekken 2/3 Special was based on the same engine or code to an extent even if handled by different development groups.

V.R Fighter VS Taken 2
From what I can gather this was developed first and based on its own unique engine. The sprites and music are not reused, options screens are different, and the fighting system (however crappy) is somewhat playable. Unless my memory is failing I know it was the first game dumped. If for some reason it was developed after Tekken 3 Special, I have no idea why they would still use the “2” in the name as a selling point.

Tekken 2 (SNES) / Tekken 3 Special (MD)
I’m guessing the SNES version was developed first being that it uses the 2 name rather than 3, along with having less characters and sampled sounds.  

Blocking bugs on MD only: Has a strange blocking system where you have to press both A and back to block, simply pressing back will avoid the hitstun but you’ll still take the regular amount of damage.

Button bugs on MD only: After holding the B button down, you will only be able to duck or jump. When you jump you do a jumping punch animation.


Soul Blade (SNES) / Soul Blade Special (MD)
I’m assuming the Mega Drive version was developed last, hence the “Special” moniker. MD version also has more characters, more speech, a much larger ROM size, but it loses the line sway button the SNES version has.

Blocking bugs on MD only: Same fucked up blocking as Tekken 3.

Button bugs on MD only: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left or right. When you jump you do a jumping punch animation.

Samurai Spirits II
Has 1998 on the title screen and has that one guy from Soul Blade as a playable character, so obviously made after Soul Blade Special. Even though he’s from a different game he plays exactly the same as he does previously. SSII has the distinction of being a game that aesthetically tries to recreate the arcade version, both in visuals and sounds.

Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you will only be able to duck or jump. When you jump you do a jumping punch animation.

Same fucked up blocking game as the previous two games.


The King of Fighters ’98 aka The King of Fighters 2000
Blocking is done either by pressing A or holding back.

Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left, right or jump. Also introduces a weird special move bug: if you hold down the button used for the special move, and keep the button held while doing the D-pad motion for the special, it will do the special move anyways. This doesn’t seem to work for all moves for all characters, but several of them. For instance, Robert’s lightning legs move is to rapidly press C. If you just hold C, then press back x2 he’ll do it.


Dragon Ball Z: Final Bout
Dated ’99 on the title screen.

Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left, right or jump.


The King of Fighters ‘99
Basically the same game as ’98, minus Cammy but adding Vega (Dictator), Cyclops, and Iori, along with some new tunes and backgrounds.

Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left, right or jump. Same weird special move bugs as in KoF ’98.


Top Fighter 2000 MKVIII aka Top Fighter 2005
Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left or right. This bug effectively breaks the game because it has a new quirk, not only will this do it if you HOLD B, but if you PRESS B AND FORWARD OR BACK. In other words, you must fully release the D-pad when you want to punch, because if you are walking forward and press punch your character will come to a complete dead stop and not do ANYTHING.

You can also to the easy special move performance like KoF ‘98/’99 by holding in the button and doing the D-pad motion.

Chinese Fighter III / Lord of the Rings
Button bugs: After holding the B button down, you cannot move left or right.

You can also to the easy special move performance like Top Fighter by holding in the button and doing the D-pad motion.

I’d say when Power Rangers: The Fighting Edition and Samurai Shodown VS Soul Blade are played/dumped they’ll have this same button bug on them also.

I’m going to go out on a limb and also say the existing other dumped SNES fighters are also tied to the MD series, if they don’t have the same developers they were at least stealing stuff from each other. The all the Cyclops sprites and animations from KoF ’99 & Top Fighter for MD are originally taken from X-Men VS Street Fighter for SNES, if you notice that game only has a single punch/kick button and not a weak/strong attack system. Cyclops is the only character in KoF ’99 without a weak/strong punch and kick because he’s using that same limited animation set that was found in X-Men VS Street Fighter. Both platforms also use a similar HUD for the lifebars and character names. The crappy game engine with the herky jerky animation is probably the same for all 5(?) SNES games but it’s really to taxing for me to play even just to find out.

Barver:
I would assume the Genesis versions of anything on SNES are the first released, going by how everything on SNES that's also on Genesis seems to use the same graphics as the Genesis one, as though they were made with the Genesis' color limitations in mind.

PlayerSecelt:
I have some other little details to say:
Virtua Fighter vs. Taken 2, Soul Blade Super and maybe a few other fighting games have the same sound engine, also used in Squirrel King and some other pirate games.
The most of the others use the Mortal Combat 5: Sub Zero sound engine.
Also, Shui Hu Feng Zhuan uses some songs from Mulan, MK5 (pardon, MC5 =P) and maybe a few other games, but I know, it's not a fighting game but a Golden Axe clone with blood, but I just said that for some info.
(Oh, and sorry for some stuff people already said, I wasn't checking the posts above.)

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